tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1881949182508114138.post728897813902739033..comments2023-10-14T04:55:24.978-05:00Comments on The Evil GM: D&D 3E is... Old School?The Evil Dungeon Masterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10825613960264448920noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1881949182508114138.post-68778526895087584872011-12-23T14:45:58.562-06:002011-12-23T14:45:58.562-06:00I agree with James. Old school to me has very litt...I agree with James. Old school to me has very little to do with age actually; it's more about a set of game principles (granted, these are not set in stone and are likely to vary between people). LotFP is a relatively recent game, but it is certainly old school. There are plenty of old adventures that were horrible railroads, and I wouldn't consider those very "old school" at all.<br /><br />Also, I don't think 3.5 is sufficiently different from 3.0 to justify being considered a different game. 3.0, 3.5, and Pathfinder are all the same thing in my book.<br /><br />@JohnH<br /><br />For the best short intro to the difference between gaming styles check out <a href="http://www.lulu.com/product/file-download/quick-primer-for-old-school-gaming/3159558" rel="nofollow">A Quick Primer for Old School Gaming</a> by Matt Finch.<br /><br />I don't think it's impossible to play 3E with old school principles, though such principles are not really championed by the rules as written. Zak S. over at D&D with Porn Stars uses some mutation of 3E for his games, IIRC.Necropraxishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12716340801054739658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1881949182508114138.post-84553909052008185542011-11-30T15:01:14.062-06:002011-11-30T15:01:14.062-06:00Why do people play the old-school games? Is it on...Why do people play the old-school games? Is it only nostalgia or do they genuinely bring something to the game that newer games don't? Is there something provided by OD&D, 1E and 2E that isn't provided by 3E?Rodneyliveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03476187929555342435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1881949182508114138.post-16589609874160043892011-11-09T19:45:09.810-06:002011-11-09T19:45:09.810-06:00D&D3, regardless of its merits, is too post-mo...D&D3, regardless of its merits, is too post-modern to ever be old school.Dangersaurushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13096368280263953809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1881949182508114138.post-12218814577987138002011-10-31T23:28:39.407-05:002011-10-31T23:28:39.407-05:00I don't think about old school games in terms ...I don't think about old school games in terms of how long out of print, but rather a design that is derivative of original D&D. So everything up to 2e is old school. Everything after isn't.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17382112122785284265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1881949182508114138.post-19022701505696630832011-10-31T15:05:02.094-05:002011-10-31T15:05:02.094-05:00I think that Melan has the right of it. Just as 2e...I think that Melan has the right of it. Just as 2e being lumped in with 1st Ed. and Basic/etc. happened well after 2e was out of print, I can easily see the same happening to 3e. Perhaps it will force 2e out of the red-headed stepchild space that it fills currently. Whether it will be accepted by those who see "old-school" as more than "the old versions of D&D" I couldn't hazard a guess.<br /><br />That said, I think 4e has an even more difficult case to ever be considered in the same "school". The obvious reason for that being that it's an entirely new system that is mechanically incompatible with any previous edition.<br /><br /> If that argument carries water, what of the fact that 3e is technically compatible with 2e? Of course, then you get into the "feel" of the game debate which is another matter. (Sort of.)DChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17872877414368375543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1881949182508114138.post-90699926616619875342011-10-30T14:27:50.537-05:002011-10-30T14:27:50.537-05:00damage goods --> damaged goodsdamage goods --> damaged goodsMelanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07165894144553629675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1881949182508114138.post-61128651029388328552011-10-30T14:24:34.847-05:002011-10-30T14:24:34.847-05:00I followed discussions on old school D&D aroun...I followed discussions on old school D&D around that time with a lot of interest and enthusiasm, but I do not recall 2e being mentioned as "old school" at the time. If anything, it was considered damage goods after TSR's years of mismanagement. Whenever products were brought up as positive examples of old school design, they referred to 1st edition AD&D/BXCM/OD&D, and mostly pre-Dragonlance products at that. The conflation of 1e and 2e into a shared "old school" category is something I believe to be a later product. Around that time, there were dedicated 2e forums and subforums, but they didn't mingle much with the 1e fans. And there was a good reason for that: the latter often tended to look down on the products they liked.<br /><br />That's one thing. For the second: words can, and do change their meanings. As much as people may dislike it, people will refer to 3e as old school the same way some fans of older D&D call themselves "grognards", a term once adopted by wargamers, and long before them, originated by Napoleon's veteran troops. And of course, to people outside small and isolated subcultures, these words don't mean a thing.Melanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07165894144553629675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1881949182508114138.post-86132276327153377622011-10-30T13:52:08.645-05:002011-10-30T13:52:08.645-05:00Good thoughts guys. Just wanted to point out, I do...Good thoughts guys. Just wanted to point out, I don't believe 3E is old school, just wanted to throw up the idea with those questions. I think James has the right idea that player skill matters more then numbers on a sheet. With the right DM running the game, he or she can make any game feel "old school".The Evil Dungeon Masterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10825613960264448920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1881949182508114138.post-50869346437222075262011-10-30T07:51:42.634-05:002011-10-30T07:51:42.634-05:00Rulings not Rules. Player Skill matters more than ...Rulings not Rules. Player Skill matters more than numbers on a character sheet. PC's can at least <i>try</i> to do anything (within reason.) The Game is Conducive to Sandbox Play.<br /><br />There's <b>my</b> bare minimum requirements for a game to be Old School. :)Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192212467523179768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1881949182508114138.post-87951899521413423922011-10-30T07:20:16.850-05:002011-10-30T07:20:16.850-05:00I don't see it.
The nostalgia for old school ...I don't see it.<br /><br />The nostalgia for old school D&D I think is closely tied to Gygax and Arneson. Not Cook et al. so if there's nostalgia for 3e it probably won't be for a few decades. Esp. with Pathfinder effectively taking over the 3E game. I don't think your buddy was thinking of the overall context.Kiltedyaksmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03462341093016199620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1881949182508114138.post-57185367380778404022011-10-30T06:17:18.792-05:002011-10-30T06:17:18.792-05:00I'm not a OSR fanboy (wizards with 1 hit point...I'm not a OSR fanboy (wizards with 1 hit point and 1 spell? how fun is that?) but I think the "old school" name more refers to games that are very close to Gygax's original ideas - Thac0, descending AC, no miniatures, your character can do what seems "realistic" vs what skill rolls show, etc.<br /><br />So 3e, Pathfinder and 4e are the very definition of "new school." In fact, I would say there are three types of tabletop RPG: old school (original D&D), new school (Pathfinder), and indie (Fate).Domino Writinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01460077874043823789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1881949182508114138.post-13928447533411201772011-10-30T06:00:49.757-05:002011-10-30T06:00:49.757-05:00You raise a good point. I think it should be, hec...You raise a good point. I think it should be, heck one day 4E will be in the club too.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01903390795990245944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1881949182508114138.post-50034965139308077242011-10-30T02:00:47.084-05:002011-10-30T02:00:47.084-05:00Well, when 2e was still around, was 1e considered ...Well, when 2e was still around, was 1e considered "old school"? D&D from white box to Mentzer, maybe, but 1e was almost the same thing, a little outdated maybe, but not old school. I think, with Pathfinder, wich works similar enough to use the statblocks almost unchanged (just add things...), there's still enough 3e in it that 3e still isn't quite dead, but the foundation of a product still in print. <br />*shrug*Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com